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loriache · 10 months ago

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"I've been waiting for ages for somebody to unmask them."

This moment tends to elicit negative reactions in a first read through, and I've got some opinions about why where Kabru is coming from here actually makes a lot of logical sense. So I thought I'd elaborate on that.

I think people hear this and go, "He thinks they must be hiding something because they gave money to someone? What a cynic." Or "he dislikes them because they did charity?? What's wrong with this guy!". And obviously, a lot, a lot is wrong with him. But I think this makes more sense than it seems at first glance! What people evaluating this judgement miss is why Kabru is paying attention to Laios and co to begin with.

Kabru knows of the Touden siblings because (he's a little bit of a stalker-) he is keeping an eye on all the relevant parties in events developing on the island, in order to be able to guide them to his preferred outcome. This includes adventurers because they are the ones actually exploring the dungeon! He's well aware that something as minor as internal tensions between party members could be key to the historical events that are developing. (He would love the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand.)

His desired outcome is that whatever the rewards are of breaking the dungeon's curse, whether that's kingship or the ancient elven secrets of dungeons, are claimed by:

A) a short lived person

B) Someone who will be a good, effective leader and/or use those secrets and the power they carry wisely, with foresight, and to establish a political bloc for short lived people.

The person he can best trust to do this is, of course, himself. But due to his PTSD regarding dungeons and monsters, he's not able to develop the necessary skills to conquer the dungeon. Once he realises this, he starts looking for someone else who he can support to that end.

But most of the adventurers don't have any intentions of conquering the dungeon, don't have the skills, or are unsuitable in other ways. In fact, it seems like some potentially suitable people are the Toudens. There are a lot of good rumours about them going around - they actually seem to have a very positive reputation! That's what Kabru means when he says "unmask".

So when Kabru is observing something like them giving money to an old comrade from their gold-peeling days, he doesn't consider it a problem because "they're giving money to this person who doesn't actually need it" or because they must have some dark secret if they act superficially nice. I think he actually understands this situation and what it implies about Laios (in particular) perfectly well.

Laios and Falin gave money to an old comrade who got injured and couldn't work. That person then healed up but kept taking their money. Then he used the money to start smuggling illicit goods to the island.

The key is that for Kabru, the problem here is the same as with the corpse retrievers - people using the dungeon's resources to fuel dangerous, selfish, or violent pursuits cause problems for the island, attract more criminals and people with motives other than breaking the curse, and increase the chances of the whole situation ending in tragedy.

Kabru is willing to work with the Shadow Lord of the island if it gets him to his goal - he isn't scrupulous - but the criminal element of the island increasing is something he sees as a major issue.

Also, when you're evaluating someone as a candidate for power, riches, secrets, potentially kingship - then being curious about how the money you give to people is going to be used is kind of a relevant trait!

Interpersonally, Kabru's actually very easygoing - I mean, Mickbell isn't exactly an upstanding guy, is he! But Kabru likes him and they get along well. These traits wouldn't be a problem at all in a friend, or a comrade, or someone Kabru was confident he could use. But he can't get a handle on Laios, and Laios is someone who has the potential to be a major player!

On Laios' end, this is the same as with the marriage seeker who joined their party. She kept asking for things and he gave them to her, because he tries to be nice to others. He even gives her money! It's the exact same thing.

That's fine, but it became a problem because he basically wasn't interested in her motives, didn't notice she was trying to manipulate him, and it also didn't occur to him that the other party members would notice or be affected. We can assume the situation with the gold peeler is the same. When Kabru says that "It's not that they're bad people, they just aren't interested in humans," he isn't wrong.

The extent to which this is true of Laios is linked to his autism imo, (because it isn't just disinterest - he genuinely isn't able to notice nonverbal cues that people are lying to him or have ulterior motives) but to a greater or lesser extent I think it's a very common trait. Most people aren't actually that interested in other people who aren't close to them. Kabru is the weird one here. It isn't an issue except as a leader - which is why we see an immediate comparison to the Island's Lord, because that's how Kabru is evaluating them.

And disinterest in/lack of ability with people to the extent Laios exhibits it, it does, actually, make him a worse leader... it's just that as we see in the story, people can help him out. The rest of the party tell him the marriage seeker is taking advantage of him so he tells her he can't give her special treatment anymore. They're pissed and it's a crisis point - he couldn't have recovered their trust without Marcille and Falin - but that's exactly the point. With Marcille and Falin, he was able to recover their trust.

And he has other good traits that make up for it, such as his intelligence, strategic knowledge, open-mindedness and sense of fairplay.

Kabru doesn't disqualify Laios as a candidate based on what he sees about him from afar, though - he still tries very hard to get close to him, obviously hoping that if he manages he can steer Laios to defeat the dungeon and make up for his lack of people-skills in the aftermath. (Which... he does eventually achieve that goal!) He completely fails until the events of the story, so... definitely I think "They just aren't interested in humans" could also partially be a stung reaction to Laios' complete disinterest in him.

Anyway, that's my read on what exactly Kabru's "issue" with Laios is. Obviously, once he does find out what Laios' true nature is like - about his love for monsters - he develops an entirely new set of fears about Laios' priorities. But since Laios kept that a secret until the start of the story, he has no idea of that yet.

Given all that, I think it's interesting that he says that he doesn't think that the Toudens are suitable to defeat the dungeon, and that he's hoping they'll turn out to be the thieves. As some of his few potential candidates, people who he thinks may play a big role in the island's future, you'd think he'd hope they would be good people!

I suppose it's better, in his eyes, because it means that he's involved in something "interesting". They haven't just had their stuff stolen by regular criminals (boring, puts them further away from his goal) - they've been caught up in the beginning stages of "a historic event". The desperate and dwindling group forgetting morals in their quest to retrieve their lost comrade probably appeals to his sense of melodrama. Because he also just... loves drama.

Despite it being "uglier than anything he was expecting", he still pursues Laios as the person he wants to conquer the dungeon pretty much as soon as it becomes clear that he won't be able to do it himself and they are out of time. That's because... well, to be fair, there aren't any other options. And he fits standard A: he's short-lived!

and Kabru still hopes he can fit standard B, too, and be persuaded to use the power he wins for good. No matter how many nightmares he has about Laios, or whether he thinks about killing him. He doubts him, but ultimately he puts his faith in him and seems happy after the manga's ending that he made the right decision.

#dungeon meshi #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #dungeon meshi meta #kabru of utaya #laios touden #labru #laios x kabru #dunmeshi #og post #kabru is such a big picture thinker. and he evaluates people more than he judges them imo #the hater jokes are funny but the people he judges most harshly arent laios and co. they're people like the island's lord.#but you don't see that as clearly because he isn't interested in the island's lord. he understands him. finds him contemptible but useful.#whereas laios lives in his brain rent free because he WANTS to understand him but doesnt quite.#even though he sees the elves as a major threat to his ultimate goals and dislikes the way they treat short lived races #he still understands and evaluates mithrun as an individual based on his own merits #he's one of the characters who is least judgemental in that sense because while he's always making judgements and evaluations #he's also constantly revising them whenever he gets more information #my beautiful machiavellian prince <3 #it's genuinely a really laudable way of understanding others imo.#the only problem is that because he's driven towards his goals by his PTSD and survivors guilt #he pushes himself into situations (the dungeon and also interpersonally) that trigger him or even just upset him #without regard for what he authentically wants or his own wellbeing.

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tragic-ships-tournament · 9 days ago

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Tragic Ships Tournament Semi Finals

Madoka Kaname and Homura Akemi (Madohomu) from Puella Magi Madoka Magika VS

Propaganda under the cut!

Chainshipping:

No propaganda submitted, but cmon. Pull out the giant essay.

"Okay so our buddy Jigsaw here, John to his friends, puts Adam and Gordon in a trap in the so-called Saw Bathroom.

Adam wakes up from unconscious in a full bathtub and gasps for air trying to get out. In doing so, he inadvertently pulled the plug. It is pitch black in the room. A voice calls out from the other side of the room.

The voice is Gordon. His name is Lawrence Gordon, he's a doctor. For a few moments his voice is all there is until Gordon turns on the light. They are both chained to metal pipes in opposite corners. They introduce themselves. There is a dead body in the middle of the room.

Neither man trusts the other. In attempts to escape, they find clues: a clock that is brand new and as such the opposite of the rest of the room; an envelope with a cassette in Adam's pockets; and a casette, a key and a bullet in Gordon's. The key opens neither man's chain.

But there is a casette player in the hand of the dead man in the middle of the room.

With some difficulty, Adam is able to reach it so that he can play his tape which detailed his crimes (as according to John) and how he will either watch himself die or do something about it. This is a poetic trap on John's part as Adam is a voyeur and is paid by various people to follow others around and takes photos on them. As for Gordon? Well, first he sends his tape to Adam to hear first before hearing it himself. His crime is that as a doctor (his name is Lawrence Gordon, he's a doctor) he spends his days telling people they're going to die, giving them their death sentence. Now he must carry out that sentence himself. He must kill Adam by 6 o'clock or Gordon's wife and daughter will die.

The dead man in the middle of the room was one of Gordon's patients.

The recording gives them several other clues and soon they find a plastic bag in the toilet with two hacksaws and a bag of photos inside. Adam throws one to Gordon and immediately begins on his own chain. The saw breaks.

In anger, Adam throws it at the mirror which smashes. Gordon realises the saws are not for the chains but for their legs. This is when they realise they've been abducted by Jigsaw. Gordon mentions that Jigsaw had previously tried to frame him for murder by leaving his penlight at the scene of one of Jigsaw's crimes. Adam grows distrustful of Gordon because that's a weird detail to mention, huh? And in a fit of panic and anger, he takes the broken mirror shard and threatens to kill our boy Gordon (Lawrence Gordon, he's a doctor) unless he explains what the hell is going on. Then he notices that the mirror is a one-way mirror. He smashes the rest of it until he's cut through the glass and they see a camera.

A camera watching their every move. Adam soon learns that the camera is protected by another pane of glass, this one shatterproof.

Gordon, bless his heart, is able to calm Adam down and he begins to tell Adam about his family. He has a wife named Alison and a daughter called Diana. Adam asks if he wants more children, Gordon replies no as he doesn't think Diana gets enough time with her parents as is.

This nice conversation is ruined when Gordon tossed Adam his wallet so Adam can look at the picture of them in his wallet. That picture isn't there; instead, there's a picture of them tied up and gagged in their apartment. Adam doesn't want to worry Gordon so he quietly pockets it and just says the photo isn't there. This photo also has a clue that leads to Adam asking Gordon to turn off the light at which point they see a glowing X and are able to get the next puzzle in the trap. (It's a very drawn out trap compared to Jigsaw's more oftenly used one and one em traps) Gordon retrieves a box with a lighter, two cigarettes, a note saying the cigarettes arent poisonous (factually untrue consideeing lung cancer but John's an engineer not a doctor) and a phone. The phone can't be used to make calls so no 911 can save these white boys right now.

Adam, who doesn't know about the note, asks for a cigarette. Gordon says no.

Gordon asks Adam how he knew to turn off the light. Adam tries to lie, like a liar, and fails, like a failure, and is forced to reveal the photo. This is how Gordon (his name is Lawrence Gordon, he's a doctor) is able to come up with his big plan. He, having figured out it was poidonous, dips one cigarette into the blood of the dead man in the middle of the room. He turns off the light again. He explains his plan to Adam.

Lights come back up, Gordon gives Adam a cigarette and a lighter. Adam takes a drag. Suddenly what? Oh no? He's dying? Never mind, he's being electric shocked through his chain because boy howdy can that boy not act.

Also, when you turn off the lights, people can't see you. They can still hear you.

Gordon points his anger at Adam for the failure of the plan though again, he did just tell Adam the plan by talking. Like that's not that secure. But the electric shock triggers something in Adam. He remembers his abduction and having no one else in the room to talk to (besides the dead body), he tells Gordon about it. Their traumas are entwining. Then the phone rings. It's Diana. She begs her dad to save them. Then the phone is given to Alison who tells Gordon that he can't trust Adam and that they've known each other for a long time. Gordon confronts Adam. Adam admits that he's known who Gordon was for a few days. He'd been paid to follow Gordon around and take photos of what he was doing. Adam shows him the photos. Which photos, you ask? The ones in that bag that were in the plastic bag in the toilet. I'm sure you've forgotten about them now. They argue and Adam admits he followed Gordon to a hotel where Gordon was meeting up with one of his students, Carla. They were about to start an affair. Adam knows about this. As does John. That's the real reason Gordon is in this trap. A Welcome Home Cheater sign? No, no. This one gets the Saw Bathroom.

Convinced that whoever hired Adam must be Jigsaw, Gordon presses him on it. Adam relents. It's not Jigsaw. It's a detective who's convinced Gordon is Jigsaw.

They fall silent again. They figure out one of Jigsaw's henchmen is a guy called Zep who's an orderly at the hospital. The time runs out. The phone rings again. It's Alison! She's broken free! They're saved! Gunshots. Diana screams. Gordon cries. The chain electric shocks Gordon into unconsciousness. Adam immediately tries to wake him up, terrified Gordon is dead. He's not. But he's broken down. And when he was being electrocuted, he'd chucked the phone out of reach. Out of all other options, Gordon (his name is Lawrence Gordon, he's a doctor) uses his shirt to stanch his leg and begins to cut his foot off. Adam begs him not to and to just calm down, but Gordon's too far gone. When the deed is done (which you don't see in the film by the way, the first Saw was very tame when it came to gore surprisingly enough), he crawls to the dead body in the room and takes the gun out of the man's hand. He loads the gun with the one bullet he has. He shoots Adam. Adam falls back like he's in Looney Tunes. Gordon screams at the camera and begs them to save his family. And then Zep comes in. He was the one holding Gordon's family hostage. Gordon tries to shoot him. Gordon had one bullet in his gun. His shots are unsurprisingly ineffective. Zep is unimpressed with this. It is just a rapidly paling man missing a foot shooting an empty gun like he's in a water pistol battle in a county undergoing a drought. He decides to kill Gordon as he didn't kill Adam by 6 o'clock. And Zep is from the county over and has plenty of water to spare. He aims his gun at Gordon.

But he forgot about Adam. Like a Bugs Bunny reborn, Adam comes in from behind with the toilet tank lid. In his fear and pain and anger, he beats Zep over and over and over with the lid until Gordon is able to calm him down. They stare at each other like sad gay men. Gordon tells Adam that if he doesn't get out, he'll bleed to death here. Adam begs him to stay. Gordon promises to come back for him. Adam begs him not to leave him. Gordon crawls out the room. Adam is left alone, a bullet in his shoulder and his heart crawling away. He's all alone. Apart from John Kramer. He was the dead body in the middle of the room this whole time. He stands up. He tells Adam that the key to his chain was in the bathtub. The one that Adam had accidentally pulled the plug out of. He leaves the room. Game over.

Adam will die in this room. It was always going to end like this. One of them was going to die in that room. If Adam lives, Gordon must die. If Gordon lives, he must kill Adam. There is no way in the world for these two to survive, not together. There was always going to be a dead body in that bathroom."

Madohomu:

"madoka magica aired 12 episodes in 2011, with a sequel movie titled “rebellion” released in 2014. it’s been over 10 years since then, and these two have become the face of yuri. if someone makes a meme about loving yuri and makes a collage of example ships, madohomu are 100% gonna be present. video essays, fanart, fics, music videos and all kinds of fan projects featuring them are still wildly popular on all social media platforms.

but let’s talk about them (without going into too many spoilers, so this will be about the thematics in their relationship). they are light and darkness. the ying and the yang. forever intertwined. one would not exist without the other, yet they cannot exist together. for madoka has too much love for every living thing and too little for herself. and homura has too much love for madoka it blinds her to everything and everyone else, and she struggles with deep self-hatred. madoka has forsaken her own existence for the world, and homura has forsaken the world she created for her. the show has a lot of religious imagery, and madoka is akin to a god; there’s a shot of homura, who grew up catholic, kneeling at the feet of a gigantic statue of madoka, praying, but her hands stain her clothes. because if madoka is god, then homura is lucifer - specifically, iblis, the muslim version of lucifer, who loved god so much he betrayed him, for he’d rather defy him than bow to his creation, humans. and homura would rather defy the sanctity of madoka’s wish, rather than obey its laws, for she will take madoka’s happiness in her hands, if she refuses to. in the movie, dolls representing homura’s inner machinations yell, “gott ist tot”, for homura’s god, madoka, dies in the movie, when homura remembers that madoka was human first, and godhood was something she reached to save everyone, against her best interest and happiness. their relationship is one of love, kindness, obsession, devotion, hope, faith, worship - they are the thesis and the antithesis, the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega, an unstoppable force and an immovable object. forever locked in a struggle, never fully embracing, for madoka will always sacrifice herself for the world, and homura will always doom the world and herself for madoka."

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